Glenn Poch's Bottle Collecting Newsletter 13

                                                Bottle Newsletter #13
                                                Oct/Nov 1996
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Greetings, hope all is well with everyone, don't forget to update me on 
your recent finds.

WITHIN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS MY EMAIL ADDRESS WILL BE CHANGING, AND I WILL 
HOPEFULLY TRANSFER ALL OF THE SUBSCRIBBERS TO THIS NEWSLETTER 
SUCCESSFULLY, IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE ANYTHING FROM ME IN THE MONTH OF 
NOVEMBER RE-EMAIL ME (I WILL CHANGE THE E-MAIL ADDRESS ON THE FEDERATION 
AND CANADAIN SITE)!

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The following was submitted by - Dave Hinson

BOHEMIAN GLASS
The colorful overlay cut glass of the 19th Century is referred to as 
Bohemian glass. Most of it did come from Bohemia, the land of many small 
glass producing factories, but many of the European countries also made 
this glass. In the pre-Civil War 1800's, American glass manufacturers, such 
as the New England, Boston and Sandwich Glass Companies, joined this 
lucrative market to supply the demand of the Victorians for this 
fashionable, rich-looking, opulent addition to their decor in the forms of 
decanters, toilet sets, vases, goblets, etc.
This glass, which is referred to as flint glass or "crystal", has 
brilliant, clear, refractive powers because of the type of silica used, 
which is flint, and the presence of lead oxide, which also explains its 
"heaviness."
FORMING:
A glob of transparent glass was gathered from the batch of molten glass on 
to the blow pipe and then dipped into a vat of melted colored glass. It was 
rolled and blown into the general shape of the finished product.
GRINDING:
"Cut" glass is really ground.
Step 1.  The pattern was marked on the newly blown form with a steal wheel 
having mitered edges.
Step 2.  The actual grinding starts with iron wheels on which moist sand 
and water drip continuously.
Step 3.  Finer sandstone wheels and water smooth away the rough cuts.
Step 4.  Wood wheels with pumice and water start the polishing procedure.
Step 5.  Cork wheels and brushes with tin oxide polish the bottle to 
perfection.
This results in a beautiful color overlay with the pattern ground through 
to the clear, brilliant, transparent glass underneath.
Frosted parts of the glass, such as leaves or grapes, usually are areas 
that have been ground but not polished, but occasionally are acid treated 
portions.
Victorians used their decanters and bottles. Wine and toilet water 
(cologne) were transferred into these colorful containers and became a part 
of their daily lives, as evidenced by the great amount of wear on the 
bottoms of these old beauties!

CORNING MUSEUM
Museum to Hold 36th Annual Seminar on Glass.
Lectures on American, Italian, and Scandinavian glass will be presented 
during the 36th annual Seminar on Glass at the Corning Museum of Glass. The 
Seminar will be held October 16-19, 1996.
According to Dr. David Whitehouse, Museum director, several lectures will 
focus on topics related to the Museum's 1996 special exhibition: "The 
Queen's Collection: Danish Royal Glass."
Registration and informal reception will be at 8 p.m. on Wednesday, October 
16. Lectures are scheduled throughout the day on Thursday, Friday and 
Saturday. The lectures are open to the public; there is an admission fee of 
$17.00 per lecture or $170.00 for the Seminar. Museum members will be 
admitted for $15.00 per lecture or $150.00 for the Seminar.
Thursday's program begins with a welcome and new acquisitions review by Dr. 
Whitehouse at 9:30 a.m.
The seminar closes Saturday evening with a wine-tasting and dinner at 
Corning Incorporated's corporate headquarters. Additional information on 
the Seminar is available by calling The Corning Museum of Glass at (607) 
937-5371.
Corning also has a new mini-exhibition entitled "Corning's Cut Glass 
Treasurers" The exhibition opens September 20 and closes December 31, 1996. 
The museum will present a special collection of cut glass created in 
Corning in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
This collection is on loan from members of the American Cut Glass 
Association. Several Corning, NY, firms were prominent in the late 19th and 
early 20th cut glass industry. The primary focus of the exhibition will be 
on T.G. Hawkes and Company of Corning, one of the largest American cut 
glass companies at the turn of the century.
Jane Shadel Spillman, curator of the exhibition, is the author of The 
American Cut Glass Industry: T.G. Hawkes and His Competitors, which will be 
published in October by the Antique Collector's Club in association with 
the Corning Museum of Glass. This 350-page book contains more than 500 
illustrations with nearly 100 glass objects shown in color. It will be 
available from the Museum's sales department.

ARE YOU READY FOR THIS?
Think Fun! The place is Jacksonville, Florida, the dates are July 25th 
through July 27th, 1997.
What is it? The Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors National Show 
and Sale 1997 sponsored by the Antique Bottle Collectors of North Florida.
The show will be at the Prime F. Osborn III Convention center, a classy 
place in the heart of Jacksonville. There is room for 300 tables and an 
excellent unloading space. Show activities will be held at the nearby Omni 
hotel.
Some fast facts about Jacksonville: * July 8, 1996, Swing Magazine names 
Jacksonville as one of the 10 "Coolest Cities for Young People in America?"
* The longest river sailboat race in the world is the Annual Mug Race that 
runs 42 miles from Palatka to Jacksonville along the St. Johns River.
* The longest concrete cable-stayed bridge in the Western Hemisphere is 
Jacksonville's Broward Bridge. Known as the Dames Point Bridge, it is two 
miles long, supported by 21 miles of steel cables and rises 175 feet above 
the St. Johns River.
* Singers Pat Boone and Rita Coolidge were both born and raised in 
Jacksonville.
Please contact Jacksonville and The Beaches Convention and Visitors Bureau 
in regard to visitor information at 904-798-9148 in city, out of the city 
1-800-733-2668.
Keep your eye on the November 1996 Bottles and Extras for full details 
about the show and how to get a table.

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the following are two responses to the article (bottle worth) in 
newsletter #12.


I struggle with this question all the time.  First let me say that I am not 
what most people would call an advanced collector.  I actually hate that word 
because it implies that I don't know much about bottles or that I  don't know 
what I am talking about.  What it really means is that I just don't like to 
spend a whole lot on bottles.  I think it gets in the way of the hobby much 
like the price of roses when they go up to $48 a dozen only around Valentine's
day sort of takes the fun out of giving flower.         

I have been in the hobby about 6 years and the most I have spent on a bottle 
is $50 and that was just last week at the Delmarva Bottle Club's show at 
Rehoboth Beach, DE.  I bought a Tippecanoe Bitters that normally would sell 
for about, what $80-100, for $50.  The reason was that there were two very 
small nicks in the glass.  I didn't even notice them until the seller pointed 
them out to me.  Notwithstanding the nicks, I bought the bottle anyway and I 
love it.  The nicks allowed me to purchase a beautiful bottle that would have 
been ordinarily out of reach.   

I really don't understand this obsession that every one has about perfect 
bottles.  That said, let me say that I only buy absolutely spotless, sparkling 
bottles for my collection but if they have a slight chip or small nick I will 
buy them anyway particulary if they are barely noticeably.  Let's face it, as 
I type this I am sitting in my study looking at my wall of beautiful bottles, 
all 100 of them.  I don't notice their imperfections from this distance and I 
certainly don't notice a small nick even when I am up close.

It reminds me of the old wallpaper dilemma.  Have you ever wallpapered a room 
yourself?  Well if you ever had, you know that even though you did a great job 
you only look at the small mismatch in the corner of the room while everyone 
else admires your work.  And you know what, after awhile you even forget the 
mismatch yourself!

When I look at my bottles, I love the small bimal medicine just as much as the 
bitters.  They are all beautiful nice clean pieces of glass that were hand 
made over 100 years ago.  I love them all.  Each one I agonized over before I 
purchased it.  Not so much for the price but because of space.  I allocated 
myself about 40 linear board feet to house my collection.  So I don't buy any 
bottle lightly, even the $5 ones.

So getting back to your question of what is a bottle worth.  To me, not that 
much.  I don't really see the difference between most aqua colored medicines 
and I really don't care if the bottle is scarce or not.
It all comes down to what a person is willing to pay for a bottle. That is the 
value of the bottle.  If someone has a price of $40 dollars on a aqua bimal 
medicine who is to say that the bottle isn't worth $5.  I usually figure that 
most people know their cost and they try to make some profit.  So, if they 
bought high they will sell high and if they bought low they will sell low.  I 
usually look for the latter.

Joe.

PS.  Looking for the following books:
One for a Man, Two for a Horse
Illustrated Guide to Collecting Bottles by Munsey
A Bit About Balsams
The Snake Oil Syndrome

above submitted by Joe Protano (if you have any of the books 
listed for sale please e-mail Joe at BluHen@msn.com).

Thanks Joe:
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 In response to your question in the issue #12 newsletter about the   
bottle auction.  If the buyer is happy with what they paid then the price   
was good.  In general I think many bottles are over priced.  It amazes me   
how some bottle that have exact duplicates as far as appearance, color,   
rarity will sell for drastically different prices if they are from   
different parts of the country.  For example Western bottles.  I do   
recognize that a bottle's rarity can send the price through the roof.   
 For the rarer bottles it can be nearly impossible to set a price.  I   
also value a bottles age highly.  It's incredible to me how some Pontiled   
bottles can sell for only a couple bucks while a 1900's painted label   
soda for $50.
A few years ago I was toying around with a pricing formula that any   
collector could apply to Soda bottles.  To use it one would start with a   
base price for a soda bottle.  The price would then be affected by   
exactly whatever category the bottle fell into.  For example Pontiled   
would be worth more than smooth base.  Amber more valuable than aqua.   
 Graphic embossed more valuable than no graphic.  The only categories   
that could not be easily quantifiable were rarity and historic value.   
 Evaluating condition can have it's difficulties too.  This system seems   
to work well in establishing a standard in coming up with a price for a   
bottle.  I use this system to rate the bottles I collect and sell.   
 However, when I  run bottles listed in various price guides through I   
would get quite a difference in values.  This is mainly to regional   
differences and where the author got their information.  To set the   
"base" price I was going to try and find the average price listed of a   
soda.
I'm not sure some kind of standardization would ever catch on.  A central   
group such as the Federation would have to set the base price for each   
class of bottle (Bitters, Sodas, Fruit Jars etc.)  and update it as time   
goes by.  Maybe you could ask the newsletter readers what they think   
about coming up with a standard.  If it could actually be done I think it   
would really help when buying a bottle out of a magazine or over the   
phone.  You could just say the bottle has a 75 soda rating multiply that   
by the base value of $1 and you get your price.  Oh well probably just   
wishful thinking.
Back to your question about the bottle sold at the auction.  Just because   
one collector (well it really take two in bidding) pays a high price for   
a bottle doesn't mean the bottle is worth that much.  $40,000 was what   
they were willing to pay at the time.  The actual value (if there is such   
a thing) may be closer to $30,000.  I think too often bottle value   
increases based on one price fetched at auction and not on it's true   
value over time.  I hate this when I'm trying to by a bottle but love it   
when I'm selling one.  Oh well those were my thoughts on the matter.  I'm   
curious what the other readers think.

the above submitted by Jim Viguerie
thanks (Jim)

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For Sale/Wanted:

From: Mikepppta@aol.com -

The Milwaukee Antique Bottle & Advertising Club) is looking for info from 
people with Wisconsin embossed beers that were not listed in the 1976 
edition of "Badger Breweries: Past & Present". Info (rubbings,etc.) 
should be passed along to Wayne Kroll, W3016 Green Isle Lake Dr., Ft. 
Atkinson, Wi. 53538. A new updated edition is in the making.
Thanks,
Mike Reilly

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Looking for the following:

          Beer or mineral bottles marked G&H or H.G. CO.
          any jelly jar/tumbler attributed to Hemingray
          any Kerosene can marked PRINCESS, EMPRESS, or ELGIN
          various fruit jars made by Hemingray
          Beer/pop bottles w/ H in a square or circle on base
          Graf's Zep pop bottle from Milwaukee, Wis
          Refrigerator water bottles w/waterfall, wishing well, 
             Abe Lincoln, George Washington, GE Refrigerator, 
             Majestic Refrigerator, Minnehaha (spring water),
             Spirit of '76 (shows marching band), Lions head
             fountain, Coca-Cola, Save with Ice, or a Rope design
          Any other glassware that can be attributed to the 
             Hemingray Glass Company of Covington, KY and
             Muncie, IN.

        Bob Stahr     stahrrb@axp.calumet.purdue.edu

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WANTED: ESPECIALLY LOOKING FOR EARLY SCENT BOTTLES PARTICULLARLY SEAHORSE 
SCENT BOTTLES, FIGURAL PIG BOTTLES, FIGURAL BITTERS - pochg@phk.nslsilus.org

FOR SALE: Tippaconoe Bottle (65% orginal label) (medicine/bitters), 
figural log shaped with mushroom mouth better then average color $145

Philadephia Sodas (most smooth base, most need a cleaning), have a number 
of these $15-60

Amber Figural Whiskey Gun orginal cap $65-

Black & White Whiskey, Olive-Green Round $15-

Doct Marshalls Catrrah Snuff, Open Pontil, better color, very dark aqua 
towards light green, very clean  $50-

pochg@phk.nslsilus.org